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Lord John Shewan
Junior Member
Canada
167 Posts |
 Posted - 07/11/2006 : 06:54:09
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COIN OF THE REALM
The intent of creating the coin of Nordholt is to provide for the creation of a common object of value for trade within the settlement and possibly the Empire. Further to this purpose is the opportunity for the Lord & Lady to reward the deeds of those found worthy of such recognition with these coins. It is not the intention of the coin of the realm to replace the use of mundane currency. However, if there are Merchants or Citizens that so desire the solitary use of the coin for their goods or services so be it.
Production of the Coins
There are several methods of creating the coins and therefore this topic requires further research. However, the method aside there will be the matter of the labour to produce the coins and in the age old re-enactors manner this will require volunteers. I expect that there will be volunteers at the ready to assist with this task but I hope that there is an opportunity here for more than the usual 1% of the people to help with this project.
Distribution and Reclamation of the coins
The creation of the coins will be controlled be the Leadership of the settlement. Therefore it should only be possible to obtain new coins from the Lord or Lady of Nordholt. This said it may be possible to gain the circulated coins from anyone in possession of a coin for many reasons. Possible ways to gain coins may be but are not limited to barter & trade, favours, rewards, payment for services, gambling and tithing.
Annual creation of new coin designs. It has been suggested that the coins be changed each year to add value or collect ability to the coin. In this we have decided to have the new coin design finalized by the last day of the fourth month of the Gregorian calendar. This is done so to coincide with the affirmation of the Leadership of Norholt for the ensuing year. Thus, the minting of the coins should be completed by no later than Domesday which is at Ragnaroc each year. The reason for this timeline is so that there should be enough time to get the coins into circulation for the tourney season and to present coins to the House of Lords at Ragnaroc.
Reclamation of the coins from the populous for further distribution and circulation is a subject of concern. The Leadership may always produce coins at their will but to keep the value of the coin high it is thought that the number of coins in circulation should be kept low. So, some possible methods for the state to regain the coins may be by taxing, pillaging, tithing, state gambling, gate fees or by a state market.
The market is an idea that may benefit the people best while reclaiming the coins. It is thought that goods within the stores would be donated or bought with coin of the realm from the populous. This idea has merit but would require the negotiation of value for each item to be translated into coin of the realm. The greatest benefit would be for a new member of the Empire with little in the way of gear or kit so that they could gain the items they need. Examples of such items are garb, period accessories, weapons or even a few cleverly disguised mundane items for use at the encampment. Of coarse there is always the option of having food to be traded for by someone with coins as well.
Another option could be the Tavern Nights. We would take the “King’s Pot” of any game as long as the coin of the realm were used instead of any other token or currency. Perhaps even some items for auction by coin of the realm or as a token to gain entry as well as a mundane fee?
Issues to be discussed or decided – We would like to hear input on the following points:
name of the coin
Will we call the coin “coin” or a farthing or shilling or the LMSS (look Mairi something shiny)
Should the name reflect the Norse or Scottish cultures? Or maybe the name should be worldlier?
Should the name reflect a period coin such as a penny?
size of the common coin – this would be the every day type of coin to be used for trade, rewards, etc …
Aside from the obvious financial benefits to a smaller coin what size should be used? A penny, quarter or twonie?
How thick or heavy should the coin be?
number of coins
How many is too many? Or not enough? The argument is keep the volume low to keep the value high. How does this make the coin common by making it rare? Should we also mint rare coins as well?
creation method meaning casting, striking or a combination of both
Keeping the volume in mind and the need for volunteers what is the best method of creating the coins?
Some folks use pewter blanks that have been cast then strike the image to the coin. The soft metal takes the impression much better than others.
In saving time why not cast the coins completely then break the molds at the end of the year. With the striking method there is a much higher cost in creating the dies which then need to be destroyed at the end of the year.
content of the coin
The content of the coin must be non toxic and durable. For the amount of use that these coins will see in the Empire it has been suggested by an experienced Master Craftsman that pewter would suffice.
The price of the raw material is the concern here for the first few years at least. The cheapest metal would be pewter and it is relatively easy to work with also another benefit is that if there is a defective piece then it can be re-melted to create a new coin. If we were to use a copper blank the defective piece would be destroyed and the material lost thus increasing the cost of the project.
Coin Design
What should be the standard design? Should one side stay a standard image or text and the other differing? Or should the coin have varying images on both sides each year?
One thought here is that one side should remain constant even if it had a date change each year to keep a consistent factor to the coins. This way a person may flip the coin and recognize the coin as being a Nordholt LMSS which may very well increase the value of the coin.
value of the coin both mundane and within the empire
The mundane value of the coin will not be as much as the value within the Settlement. However, the cost to produce the coins should be calculated in order to have a mundane value set upon them for the production of the coins as well as for financial record keeping.
The value within the Empire is entirely a different issue and one that will depend on the value set by the populous. How will this value be set by the populous? The short answer would be along the thoughts of personal values or ones of sentiment perhaps. This is the whole basis for the barter trade systems that have been in use for centuries within many cultures. A case in point may be the trading of little beads for blankets and guns. Where the beads turn out to be emeralds which are common and useless to a native population but of greater value to the Western traveler.
Lord John Shewan of Nordholt
Happy to meet, sorry to part, happy to meet again!
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nordholt
Forum Admin
61 Posts |
 Posted - 07/11/2006 : 12:10:10
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Ok while I think this a good idea, I think the timing is something that will have to be worked on due to taxing of resources that we do not yet have.
As for value of the coins I think that we should let nature takes its course. People will begin to asign a certain value to them over time and unless we want to create an exchange rate with mundane coin, we shouldn't try to set the value.
Reclaimation should be Nordholts gimic so to speak. In Nordholt we all like our tavern nights and as such we should maybe focus on making them as authentic as possible. The coins would go a long way for doing that. Make them the official currency of Nordholts tavern. People show up with coins they have earned from our lord and lady throughout the year and turn them in for drinks and alike.If I am at such a tavern and I sit to gamble. I could then use these coins and no one would mind because they would know what they get if they win them.If the coins are to be treats from the Lord and Lady then they should not be minted to the point that they can become currency. Besides if I am not mistaken, mucdane law has some laws regarding creating a currency within a country.I may be wrong.
As a pilot project maybe we should mint a couple hundred and see what the populace does with them. They could be sold at tavern nights as well to raise money for the Settlement. You show up and buy some coins to gamble with and use for drinks etc...with the money going to cover cost of minting and tavern supplies and the extra going to the coffers for projects.
Just some thoughts. More to come.
Bowdyn Ivarsson |
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Ión biarnylr Biarnar son
Starting Member
Canada
0 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 12:35:42
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From a metal worker's and pewter caster's point of view, casting the coins complete from a mould would be the easiest and cheapest approach. That being said I like the idea of casting blanks then striking them, though I have no idea of how to make the dies required and I think if we go that route we should make the dies ourselves instead of buying them from elsewhere.
Also I think the collectability of them will be the biggest part of it in the long run, though using them at the tavern like Bowdyn suggested is a great idea to raise money for the settlement. Perhaps at the door you can buy 10 for a loonie to use for gambleing. I do not think that using them to buy drinks is a good idea since then you would need a liquer lisence since you would be selling booze. They could be used to buy snacks and treats though as well as gambling. Then perhaps at the end of the night the people who won the most could spend a large portion of thier coins on some good items either donated or made for that specific reason. For example everyone buys thier coins at the door, throughout the night the gambleing is intense and Haldorr walks away with 80 lmss and Yrsa 30 lmss(everyone else looses everything as ussual lol). On thier way out, at a table overseen by our gracious Lady or one of her choosing, Haldorr spends 75 lmss on a piece of leather he needs to complete a project he is working on and Yrsa buys herself a shiney new tankard to replace an old dented one for 25 lmss.
Result - they both get something of value for the money they spent and won, they both have a few coins to keep for collecting purposes or as a stake at the next tavern. Meanwhile eveyone who lost had fun and a good time and next time they know they have a chance to win and buy something cool with thier winnings as well.
Also the stocks...it could cost you 5 lmss to have someone placed in the stocks for 5 mins and if the unlucky person has 10 lmss they could purchase thier freedom (this too could be a good money maker as more people start to attend the tavern).
Ión biarnylr Biarnar son
Guard to Lady Cassandra Lacey
Settlement of Nördholt |
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Ión biarnylr Biarnar son
Starting Member
Canada
0 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 13:00:19
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Another thought,
The game glakhaus(sp?) since it takes alot of coins to play. Maybe it should cost 5 lmss to buy a stake of 30 chits to play with and when you are ready to quit you can cash out buy trading your chits in for lmss at 30 chits for 5 lmss. All side betting could be done in lmss.
Tablero- I have no idea how it is played so someone else can figure out the details but possibly something simular to glakhaus(buying and cashing out).
Dicing games can be played just for straight lmss as could other period games.
no matter how we do it I think the quantity of coins needed to be cast will depend on how much value for at the tavern we choose to place on them and how many people attend the tavern.
Like I said in my earlier post I think the taverns should still be BYOB so there is not issue with mundane laws and licencing.
Size of the coins - I think the size and thickness of a nickle is good.
Value - This topic is more difficult. Personally I would be happy if say one of the lucets I make(I sell them for about $4) would be worth 10 lmss which in turn I could use to pay my gate fee at tavern($2)which would tansulate into approx. 5 lmss / $1cnd or perhaps to make the math easier for people 1 lmss = $0.25cdn (4 lmss to a dollar)
Design - I think one side should stay mostly constant the other can change year to year.
For example side A = Lord John and Lady Cassandra, Nördholt,
Side B a viking longship for the first year.
Side B changes every year, side A only changes if or when a new Lord and Lady takes up leadership of the settlement, also if we start this before we become a Barony then I think it should change after we become a Barony.
For example side A could then read Baron John and Baroness Cassandra, Nördholt.
Side B could be the Barony's device or something.
Ión biarnylr Biarnar son
Guard to Lady Cassandra Lacey
Settlement of Nördholt |
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Mairi
Starting Member
Canada
28 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 16:28:08
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Greetings,
I like the idea of the coins (ok, even I found the lmss name amusing!!  ). I think they will work great for a tavern for gaming. Everyone can buy the same coin to use and don't have to be scrambling for pennies, nickels, dimes, etc. It's like a medieval "poker chip!".
I wonder how difficult it will be to make a likeness of the Lord and Lady for the coin. The queen doesn't look so great on our coins so if it can't be made where the likeness is recognizable and flattering then perhaps a Norse design on one side and a Scottish design on the other could be considered since those are the two major "nationalities" that make up our settlement.
Just my two "lmss"'s worth! 
Mairi
~~Nobody and nothing...
Just here to have fun!! |
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Lord John Shewan
Junior Member
Canada
167 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2006 : 09:48:09
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It is good to see that the ideas for using the LMSS are flowing but we still need to name and design the common coin.
We will have two coin sizes the common "currency" coin will be the size of a nickle made from pewter which will be the one everyone uses for gambling and trade gods or services. Then there will be a second coin the size of a quarter of a little bigger for the Lord & Lady to reward in Court or for services to the Settlement. Perhaps, depending on the process we may even look at producing a coin out of another material to indicate a "higher" value the way gold was used over the common silver or copper of old.
We are hoping to get this project started soon maybe even have some coin for the Tavern Night! Any volunteers to assist with this? we still need a design and name too.
Lord John Shewan of Nordholt
Happy to meet, sorry to part, happy to meet again! |
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Ión biarnylr Biarnar son
Starting Member
Canada
0 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2006 : 13:58:47
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Possible names :
-silver penney
-silver dragon
-dragoon
-silver bit
-bit
-orb
-silver orb
Ión biarnylr Biarnar son
Guard to Lady Cassandra Lacey
Settlement of Nördholt |
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yrsa
Starting Member
Canada
47 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2006 : 06:30:32
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We should name it after it is designed.
It could have a star on it....silver star, estoile, mullet
a bird......name it after one of odin,s ravens....muninn , huginn,
or even the crow that was made by the creation....Audumla
squirrel......Ratatosk
a dragon gripping beast....nidhogg, scale,
named after a creator..... ibn
A image of our lady ....beauty, the lady, love, lovely, Cassandra,
grace,
It cold be ugly....ugly, ugh, ack, eeeww,
Man i could go forever on this list of names.
OH, I got one, a person making them bash their figers with a
hammer will definatly give it a name.....$^* )#*$, (^&%@, %*(!?$#^
I think we could wait.
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nordholt
Forum Admin
61 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2006 : 10:02:20
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LMAO
Bowdyn Ivarsson |
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Lord John Shewan
Junior Member
Canada
167 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 07:15:29
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So the name selection is set aside for the time being ... any design ideas? one side should have the Nordholt device on it with perhaps the year in Roman numerials. As for the other side what about leaving it up to the Lord & Lady of the term to decide on? So, for example this year I would ask Lady Cassandra what she wants and the answer is a cat or lion. So the coin would have the device on one side and a lion on the other with a one marking the year. THe next year I choose and it the Nordholt Arms on one side and the other is a bear and a two indicating year two and so on ...
Lord John Shewan of Nordholt
Happy to meet, sorry to part, happy to meet again! |
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yrsa
Starting Member
Canada
47 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 10:29:12
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any design ideas? one side should have the Nordholt device on it.
I almost passed out for this.
Do me a favor. Go to the top and do a print screen. You wish to
capture the shield. Then to paint and paste.
shrink the sheild image until it will fit on a nickel.
On my 17 inch mon. that is tiny and the details are not there.
That was only down to the size of a nickel it needs to be a bit smaller.
Would be better off with a gripping beast.
(dragon/cat badge look-a-like)
But if that is what my lord wants. It is do-able.
"just have to make it fat"
Against the disease of writing one must take special precautions,
since it is a dangerous and contagious disease.
-- Peter Abelard in Letter 8 to Heloise
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Edited by - yrsa on 07/21/2006 11:33:26 |
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Ión biarnylr Biarnar son
Starting Member
Canada
0 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 16:38:13
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it would be more doable if it is done as a line drawing etch instead of a 3D sculpted bias relief. You would still almoast need a micro scope to etch it though 
Ión biarnylr Biarnar son
Guard to Lady Cassandra Lacey
Settlement of Nördholt |
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Lord John Shewan
Junior Member
Canada
167 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 03:05:18
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So for a mold we might be better to use the star as the constant side which may help with the name later. I would think that the die may be an issue as well with the fine detail work since my research into the historical coins shows very little detail into well past the age of the Empire.
Oh, how about the tree with the roots on it from the device then we could say the common coin is a foundation of our settlement as the roots are to the tree. The roots help to collect food and nurish the tree as where the coin will help collect funds to help the branch flourish.
Lord John Shewan of Nordholt
Happy to meet, sorry to part, happy to meet again! |
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yrsa
Starting Member
Canada
47 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 10:08:32
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My insperation ( well for one side)
Yrsa
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Against the disease of writing one must take special precautions,
since it is a dangerous and contagious disease.
-- Peter Abelard in Letter 8 to Heloise
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yrsa
Starting Member
Canada
47 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2006 : 20:44:47
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My muse was tickled. My crafty side stimulated.
My skills were primed and my nerves were at peace. (pills for head cold).
It Is finished.
It is about the size of a quarter and only slightly thicker.(in the design)
The lettering is not the same as my insperation above.
But you can read mine.
Now it is up to our Lady and the labour of our Lord to make them true coins of Nordholt.
Artist's Comment: I think it looks good and it feels cool in the hand.
Oh and another thing .....I know what it looks like.
Yrsa
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Against the disease of writing one must take special precautions,
since it is a dangerous and contagious disease.
-- Peter Abelard in Letter 8 to Heloise
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Lady Cassandra Lacey
Starting Member
Canada
13 Posts |
Posted - 08/28/2006 : 12:09:27
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quote:
It Is finished.
quote:
Artist's Comment: I think it looks good and it feels cool in the hand.
Oh and another thing .....I know what it looks like.
When do we get to see it 
PLEASE...PLEASE...I want to see
Lady Cassandra Lacey |
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Topic |
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COIN OF THE REALM
